Is/will there be an option to report ‘fainter than’ ccd data with WebObs 2.0?
Thanks.
There is… using a file submission: see the following web page for formatting.
If you are submitting a single observation, enter the magnitude, and check the box.
Check this box if your magnitude is a fainter-than.
Jim (DEY)
In my opinion the AAVSO Extended File Format instructions need to be updated, mainly because they do not mention the fact that the “Filter” field in fact means “Band” and not necessarily the physically filter used.
Thus, if you are a DSLR observer, transform your observations, and report (say) transformed V magnitudes, my understanding is that “Filter” should be “V”.
If that is still correct, reading the AAVSO Extended File Format instructions does not reveal it. I came across this years ago when I was submitting DSLR transformed mags, and following the Extended File Format instructions to the letter (or so I believed) Obstype was DSLR, Filter (the actual physical filter) was TG, and the observations were marked as Transformed.
All this seemed to me to be logical, and allowed a distinction to be made between non-transformed DSLR observations (TG, Non-transformed), transformed DSLR observations (TG, Transformed), and observations made with a monochrome CCD or CMOS camera with a V filter (V, Transformed or Non-transformed).
However, according to accepted practice it was incorrect.
That’s why I think the Extended File Format instructions need to state, explicitly, that DSLR/One-Shot-Colour camera observation green channel magnitudes that are transformed to Johnson V should list the “Filter” as V. It would, in my opinion, also be useful to change the header “Filter” to “Filter/Band”.
A little confusing.
I submit a file, AND enter a magnitude?
I uploaded a file, (WebObs 2) there was no option to enter/change the magnitude and there was no box to check that it is a ‘fainter than’ measurement.
Roy,
Perhaps your comments about extended format specfication write up and other things not related to the original thread question should go into its own topic thread. Burried down in this thread may not get much of an audience.
Just an idea…
Jim (DEY)
BPO,
Sorry but my comment was not a bit confusing.
If you have a specific problem give us the details and we can get you were you need to be.
Jim (DEY)
Jim,
Yes I thought about that, and decided to post anyway because you had a link to the AAVSO Extended Format web page. It’s really a question for AAVSO admin. I’ll send it on to them.
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Jim,
I want to manually submit a ‘fainter than’ CCD measurement. There is no check box for ‘fainter than’ obs.
You was referring to uploading a file, I should have been more specific.
Doug
Doug:
When you calculated your CCD magnitude, I assume that your photometry software provided a specific magnitude and associated error? Your software (e.g. VPhot) probably has a setting for minimum SNR for measured stars to avoid calculation of unreasonably faint/undetected (SNR<3) target magnitudes with enormous errors?
What is the circumstance that made you decide to submit your ccd magnitude manually and make a decision to report the < magnitude? Does your photometry software not provide an AEFF report?
Did you actually do some sort of visual estimation of the target on your ccd image? Trying to understand exactly why you are making a manual ccd submission?
Ken
PS: BTW, the older WebObs V1 is still available though I am not recommending that you use it. It does provide an option to use < for ccd submittals.
BPO,
A single observation or a file full of observations?
My first comment covered both situations! 
Jim (DEY)
Ken,
Thank’s for the reply.
I observe some faint CV’s, so most of the time my CCD image shows no target star, (I use MaximDL 5) there are only the comps visible.
My method is/was to use the faintest comp available in the image and visually decide the target star’s ‘fainter than’ measurement and report that.
I have, and had no problem submitting CCD file measurements. Only the ‘fainter than’ option appears to be missing in Webobs 2, or am I missing something 
Doug
If you are trying to enter a single CCD observation by typing in the data you are correct there is no check box for fainter than on the “CCD” entry page.
So it would be best to create an extended format data file with an appropriate header and one data record containing the fainter than measurement. Submit that.
Does this work?
Jim (DEY)
Thank’s Jim,
I’ll try to get MaximDl to produce a file with the appropriate text.
I was thinking that this kind of ‘hybrid’ observation may have to go in the database from now on as a visual measurement as there was no check box.
Thank’s for your advice.
Doug
Only one other thing to try is to go to the CCD single observation submission page. Try to enter <14.5 or whatever the real number is along with all the other information.
Have you tried that? Did it work?
If this attempt fails send an email to the general AAVSO email address and mention your orginal forum title. Someone will take a look at it and see if anything needs to be changed or improved.
Jim (DEY)
p.s. I tried a test, failed.
Jim,
Success! I’ve uploaded last night’s fainter than measurement of GX Cas.
I used MaximDL to measure the faintest comp (17.0 mag) and I used that as my target, then a comp and check. Then I changed the file adding a less than < character and the file was accepted.
It’s a work around until someone adds a check box!
Doug
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Doug:
Just to clarify, you ran your GX Cas image a second time in Maxim DL BUT since you already knew that it was too faint and the photometry would fail, you chose your faintest comp (170) as your target rather than GX Cas? When you ran this alternative target (170) in Maxim DL per your normal procedure, you got an AEFF report that generated a target magnitude that I assume was near 17.0? You subsequently created/saved the Maxim DL AAVSO Report for this alternative target? You then edited the target magnitude in this report to a value of <17.0? What did you use for the target name which I think should not be the original target name (GX Cas)? Did you also edit the target name field? Am I making sense here?
Ken
PS: I assume you submitted this new revised/edited AEFF report file in WebObs 2 as a file upload and not a manual upload?
Ken,
As I could already determine that GX Cas was faint from observing my image, I used MaximDL to measure the 17 mag comp (the faintest comp in the field) and named it GX Cas. Then I used the 16.2 and 16.5 as comp and check. Then after the file in Maxim was created I changed the measured magnitude of the 17 mag star and added the < character, (16.969) to <17.0.
Yes this was a uploaded file not a manual upload.
I had tried to upload the file with just a check star, but it didn’t work, it needs both check and comp, which is logical I think.
Doug