Color Transformations and AIRMASS

I’m still puzzled when trying to develop the Color Transf. Coefficients (TC’s) for my filter and camera setup, where the differences in AIRMASS are accounted for.

I mean if the measurements of Tbv and Tv_bv are made in a standard field (high sky altitude). If you want to apply these to observations a different altitude:

  1. can it be done and what is the short procedure?
  2. how and where do you account for the difference in AIRMASS also causing color shifting?

AAVSO CCD observers guidelines appendix D on transformations doesn’t explain anything about airmass correction.

Happy if anyone could point me to the right direction,

Tom

Other than correcting for the extinction due to the airmass difference, using something like -0.2X or -0.25X, where X is the airmass, there is no color term for the V filter. The extinction curve is flat across the V passband because the Chappuis bands of ozone flatten out the decline in the Rayleigh scattering in this region.
There is a color term in the B-V extinction, usually taken to be about -0.025(B-V)X. It is difficult to actually measure this second-order color term, requiring a fair number of observations of good precision/accuracy.
Some reading along these lines could include Peter Stetson’s 2019 “48 globulars” paper:

…specifically Appendix B at the very end. Notice that he does not use instrumental magnitudes in his reductions, but instead iterates on pairs of equations. He also adopts -0.016(B-V)X for the B-V color-extinction correction.
Another valuable paper is by Petr Harmanec and colleagues:

…which comes from the single-channel photoelectric viewpoint. Note again the use of standard values (not instrumental ones) as the independent variables in the reductions. The paper also contains a substantial number of bright stars rigorously reduced to the UBV system with much higher weight than the original Johnson standards.

\Brian

Hi Tom,

These are my views as an ordinary AAVSO observer not as someone who could be regarded as an expert.

First, I suspect that most AAVSO observers who transform their results do not correct for airmass. Second, I believe from various readings over some years (including comments on this Forum) that airmass corrections can be dispensed with if (1) the range of airmass at which the observations are made is relatively small (for example, X < 1.5 for all images) and (2) the field of view is small (say, 30 arcmin, or maybe less than 60 arcmin). With respect to the field of view, what really matters is of course the distance across that part of the field occupied by stars measured. I don’t use these numbers to mean that they are definitive values - they are just examples.

That said, I presume that if an observer wants the best results possible correction for atmospheric extinction is the way to go. Can it be done? Of course. What is the short procedure? I’m not sure there is one.

As I understand it, if transformation coefficients are unknown, the extinction coefficients can be determined on a clear night by following an A0 star across a range of airmasses, and plotting instrumental magnitude for each filter against airmass. The slopes are the coefficients, for example k’v and k’b.

If the transformation coefficients are known the procedure, regarded as ‘simplified’, is to observe standard stars of any colour at a range of airmasses. Instrumental magnitudes are calculated. Plots (for B and V filters) are drawn of (V-v)-Epsilon(B-V) against airmass, and (B-V)-Mu(b-v) against airmass. These slopes will yield k’v and k’bv respectively.

Second-order extinction coefficients are determined by following a closely spaced pair of red-blue stars across a range of airmasses, and plotting delta(b-v) against X*delta(b-v) where X is airmass. The slope is the second order extinction coefficient.

Once extinction coefficients are available instrumental magnitudes of variable, comp and check stars are corrected for airmass. (Corrected to what has always interested me. Airmass of zero, correction to extra-atmospheric? Airmass of 1, correction to values at the zenith? Correction to an airmass of zero involves a substantial extrapolation. Correction to an airmass of 1 is a more limited extrapolation).

Instrumental magnitudes corrected for airmass are then entered into the transformation equations for the determination of transformed magnitudes.

The above is my understanding from intermittent readings over many years, and a small amount of experimentation with airmass correction. I do not routinely correct for airmass. I do transform my results when I believe I need to (e.g., always for DSLR photometry), but dispense with transformation for long time series where the objective is timing of maxima or minima and comp stars close to the colour of the variable can be selected (edit) and observations are through a V filter.

Most of my observations are at an airmass of 1.5 or less because I have compromised horizons.

Tom: Take a look at the math below and see if it explains why the airmass of the standard field does not matter:

AirMass FilterMag1=b FilterMag2=v FM1-FM2=b0-v0
1 b0=(-0.4)1+b1 v0=(-0.2)1+v1 ((-0.4)1+b1) – (-0.2)1+v1))
2 b0=(-0.4)2+b2 v0=(-0.2)2+v2 ((-0.4)2+b2) – (-0.2)2+v2))

b0 = Exoatmosphere Magnitude

b1 = Airmass1 Magnitude

b2 = Airmass2 Magnitude

Assume b extinction Coeff = -0.4

Assume v extinction Coeff = -0.2

b0 = ExtinctionCoeffb * AirMass1 +b1 = ExtinctionCoeffb * AirMass2 +b2

Accept that b0 calculated from both AM=1 and AM=2 are identical. b0 is a fixed magnitude above the atmosphere for each comp.

Therefore,

b0 = ExtinctionCoeffb * 1 +b1 = ExtinctionCoeffb * 2 +b2

Therefore,

b0 = -0.4 + b1 = -0.8 + b2

Therefore,

b1 = -0.4 + b2

Therefore,

The only difference between b1 and b2 is a constant offset/intercept shift (-0.4), with the same slope from a plot of all standard field comp magnitudes. It is the SLOPE of the transformation coefficient plots that determines the coefficient, NOT the intercept.

Is the math correct? I think so. It can be a bit confusing until you actually work through the different variables that are plotted in each different transform coefficient plot for both color coefficients (e.g., b-v/B-V) and magnitude coefficients (e.g., B-b/B-V), and each of the other filter pairs.

Ken

PS: The table at top was created in Word and the borders did not get carried over to this post. Sorry. ;-(

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Tom,

Just to clarify, does your question apply to TCs determined at high altitude/low airmass and actual measurements of var, comp and chk at a different (higher) airmass?

Or are you asking if TCs can be determined at quite different (both low and high) airmassess, and how to deal with extinction?

Ken,

Are you saying that TCs can be determined at various (high and low) airmasses without any correction for extinction? Or are you saying that TCs can be determined at high and low airmasses as long as corrections are made for extinction?

Roy:

  1. I am saying that your Transformation Coefficients (TCs) can be determined/measured at any single airmass (high or low or intermediate) without extinction correction.
  2. Tom has observed and questioned why no AAVSO documentation includes a procedure to correct for extinction of the measured Instrumental Magnitudes (IM) during calculation of TCs.
  3. I have measured my TCs from Standard Field images collected at many discrete airmasses, and generated the same values.
  4. I think the math shows this. If it were not true, everyone who has generated their own TCs would have noted this previously.
  5. However, there is an implicit/reasonable clarification to this statement. When you collect a ‘single’ set of BVRI (or other) filters for TC analysis/generation, this single set of images MUST be collected at the ‘same’ airmass. Don’t overthink this clarification. It only means that you must take a single set of images at approximately the ‘same’ airmass. IOW, you must collect a single set of filter images over a relatively short period of time during which the airmass does not change significantly.
  6. For example, when I collect a single set of such BVRI filter images for analysis of TCs, I usually take something like one set of IRVBBVRI images (note the order). This puts the B filter images together so that the larger B extinction is not so significant in that set.
  7. The assumption is that you DO NOT use a single set of filter images together, that were collected over ‘different’ airmasses to calculate your TCs. That would not work because the images’ IM would be from different airmasses and require extinction correction.
  8. So, by extrapolation of my statement (and my math), I can take a single set of BVRI images at ANY airmass (location in the sky) and generate the ‘same’ TCs. I do this routinely. I do not worry about where and when I collect my standard field images, nor worry about what standard field I am imaging (e.g., M67 OR NGC7790).
  9. Again, there is a clarification. IF you take ‘too long’ a duration for a single set of images OR use a standard field relatively close to the horizon (e.g. airmass >2), the assumption that my single set of images are taken at the same airmass will fail since airmass changes rapidly and you cannot image fast enough to get all the filter images at the same airmass. Make sense?
  10. I propose that if none of this were true, we all would have long ago complained about the ‘consistency’ of our TCs? I also propose that if none of this were true, we could not apply our TCs to targets in images taken at different airmass. IOW, they would not work?

I’ll stop here and await any comments. I hope Arne can chime in when his current choice course is over! Then, I can delete my posts if necessary. :wink:

Ken

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Greetings,

Since we are not trying to obtain absolute exo-atmospheric magnitudes but using comparison stars of known magnitude in some filter system and keeping your comparison stars close, as close as you can, that what Ken has said is correct. I didn’t check his equations but assume they are correct without typos!

I have observed T CrB at extremely high air masses when near the end of its observing season. I’m sure there is a small contribution from differential air mass when the field is like at air mass 8 or more. However, the differential air mass error contribution between comp and var is small as far as I can tell as long as the transparency was good. Impossible to be more statistically rigorous… hand waving part :waving_hand: At normal air masses up to say 3 maximum and good transparencies the error contribution is very minor. More hand waving. :waving_hand: I suspect there have been studies published in the literature that discuss this.

Keep you comp stars as close as you are able, get good transformation coefficients using standard fields with large color ranges and transform your data. Btw, I still love SA 110 with the red extension stars that \Brian has mentioned before. The B-V range with the added red extension stars goes from +0.56 to +2.89. I get very good least-squares solutions for my color terms!

Jim (DEY)

Ken,

The above quote from your very detailed post (thank you) is to me the bottom line. If that’s the case, end of story. I have not determined enough TCs to have the same sort of data. My TCs are determined at an airmass of about 1.05 and I never worry about extinction (actually, I do worry about it, which is why I try to determine TCs when the field is on or close to the meridian).

However, I am still surprised that your TCs are the same despite the field being at different airmasses. I have read your entire post carefully and I believe I understand the points you make about procedure. Therefore the critical point for me is, over what range of airmasses have you found that your TCs are the same?

You emphasize the point in your ‘math’ post to Tom (which I’m not sure I understand) that TCs are or are derived from the slopes of the plots. Instrumental colour indices (e.g. b-v) change as airmass changes, presumably because blue light is scattered more than red. Therefore, I reason that the slope of b-v / B-V should be different at high and low airmasses, since the light from red stars is scattered less than the light from blue stars. I can’t see any way around this, so it seems to me that, if your TCs are the same at different airmasses, it must be a question of ‘how much’, that is, the range of airmasses over which you have found TCs to be constant. If the range is not too large, the effect that I believe must be present must be insufficient to actually be revealed in the TCs.

If that’s the case, it is indeed a good situation.

My final point is that it would be interesting to know if TCs determined for DSLR cameras at various airmasses would be the same, since DSLR TC values are very different from those for Johnson filters (the reciprocal of DSLR slope b-v/B-V does not approximate unity, and slope V-v/B-V does not approximate zero).

Roy,

I have a reasonable number of transform coefficients for many different OTAs, CCDs, DSLR brands, etc. I think the count is 16 different optical systems. I don’t think the data are good enough to make broad general statements. I have several cepheid variable stars I have observed with both CCDs and DSLRs and the Welch’s t-test comparing the means of the transformed photometry from CCDs and DSLRs are mostly not significant. The differences that appear significant are probably simply the fact that the DSLR data are plagued by poor sampling of the Bayer matrix.

Of course, the transform coefficients using standard fields with a low color range will have higher uncertainties than those with a large color range.

I have always observed my standard fields for determining transform coefficients at air mass less than 2 and good transparency, at least for what we get on the east coast of north america.

Jim (DEY)

Jim,

Thanks for those comments. When I have a photometric night I must experiment with images of standard fields at different airmasses. In particular, plots of b-v versus B-V would interest me.

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Thanks Roy and all for insightful comments.
You explained what I suspected that there is indeed a (small) airmass component in the TCs, but within reasonable airmass limits second order color effects can be neglected. In particular in the V-band as Brian pointed out (thanks for the papers).

The TCs essentially link the properties of the filter/camera to the standard system. I’ll double-check with a few more standard fields how constant the TCs are.
My working case was a high altitude standard field with a lower altitude target, but the question was general.

It was triggered by the AAVSO CCD guide paragraph 6.6 which says literally that ‘TCs are computed relatively rarely, but applied every night’. That implies they should be valid and applicable for different airmasses.

Tom

Air mass is only one of the factors that can influence the transformation determination and application. Most of us do not live, or have access to a telescope(s) at a world-class observing site with near perfect transparency. Brian mentioned sky glow which in some places can be very strong. Light-pollution from cities, smoke from all the forest fires the last few year, etc.

Transformation coefficients should be stable as long as no hardware changes have happened. Modern coated filters are pretty robust but some filters “rot” over time when exposed to heat and air. So lots of judgement must be applied when to do another calibration run.

At least with my telescopes, cameras, filters and processing pipeline (lots of manual stuff in my data pipes!) it isn’t that hard nor time-consuming to do determinations say monthly. Excel is my friend and I have built standard spreadsheet templates for each of the Landolt, M-67, NGC-7790, etc. fields I use. When each nights coefficients are determined I put it all in a roll-up spreadsheet by optical system. Roll-up stats can be viewed, stability of coeficents, stats, etc. can be evaluated.

I’m currently doing NGC-7790 that I observed about a week ago with the ES127 Essentials triplet + 0.7x + Atik490EX + Optolong U,B,V,Rc,& Ic filters. When I’m done typing here I will put the magnitudes into the spreadsheet to get yet another estimate of the transformation coefficients then add to the roll-up sheet.

Jim (DEY)

Last night I experimented with the relationship between b-v and Airmass, a parameter mentioned in my previous post in this thread. As expected, as Airmass increases measured b-v increases (red light not scattered, blue light scattered more through longer column of air).

However, the slopes for stars of various colours look to be the same or very nearly so, as in the first plot below.

The second graph plots the slopes of b-v/Airmass against the B-V of the standard stars (from the E Regions, in the south). The slope of this graph approximates zero, but not quite. As expected from my hypothesis, the slope of b-v/Airmass is greatest for the bluest stars.

However, there is very little difference between the slopes for stars of different colours. I hypothesize this is the reason for Ken’s finding that TCs do not differ when calculated at different airmasses - the effect, though present, is too small.

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The slight negative slope that Roy has found is just as expected and about the right value.

\Brian

Brian:

What do you consider this slope value represents? Something akin to second order color extinction coeff?

Ken

If I have the arithmetic right, Roy’s plot is indeed showing the second-order extinction for B-V.

\Brian

If I have the arithmetic right, Roy’s plot is indeed showing the second-order extinction for B-V.

But rather more laborious to produce than the usual method of following a close pair of red/blue stars through a range of airmasses and plotting delta b-v against airmass x delta b-v.

The other thing that intrigues me is that the example given in Arne Henden’s book with Ronald Kaitchuck, Astronomical Photometry, yields a k"bv of -0.042. It was first published in 1982, and dealt specifically with photoelectric photometry.

The actual value of the second-order B-V color-extinction is difficult to determine. It is typically reported in the literature that mean values from an extended run are adopted. The implication is that a number from a single night is probably not representative unless all you do is measure standards, getting several dozen stars (in the single-channel era). In his 1992 standards paper, Arlo Landolt shows a range of -0.046 to +0.013, and a mean figure of -0.023. In several papers by the SAAO folks, they adopt -0.025, presumably appropriate for their Sutherland site and the specific photometer that was in use. There’s an extensive run of data from Flagstaff in the 1960s that also shows a wide nightly range, but the mean -0.030 was adopted:

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1966LowOB...6..295J/abstract

Peter Stetson says he adopts -0.016 by convolving a model atmosphere with Arlo’s published filter passbands. He says it is too hard to measure with a CCD. So evidently it may not matter super-critically what value one uses, but something like -0.025 will not lead you far wrong.

\Brian

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Thanks Brian. I read some years ago (can’t remember where) that -0.03 could be used.